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God Controls the Climate, So You Can Relax

The views expressed are those of the author and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.

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I know, he’s just a Tea Party candidate with almost no chance of election, but Greg Brannon, primary candidate for the GOP nomination for the U.S. Senate seat currently held by Kay Hagen, said in a debate the other night that God controls the climate.

And here all this time you’ve thought it was physics.

Welcome back to North Carolina (Motto: “We have mines of crazy so rich we’ll NEVER run out!”). The state has made most of its science news this spring with its staggering inaction on the Duke Energy coal ash spill. You remember:  the largest energy company in the country spilled 39,000 tons of toxic ash into the Dan River from coal ash pits it had for years resisted cleaning up. Then it waited two months to do much about it. Then state government, naturally, sided with Duke in appealing a judge’s ruling that Duke should, you know, clean up its mess. The fact that the state of North Carolina thinks that the nation’s largest electric utility should not exercise the degree of responsibility we require from a kindergartener has, of course, nothing to do with the fact that NC governor Pat McCrory worked for Duke Energy for 28 years or that Duke has donated $1.1 million to McCrory and the organizations that support him. I mean come on.

By the way — few doubt that this catastrophic spill of toxic pollutants was anything but accidental. Just the same, sometimes Duke Energy dumps coal ash on purpose, like when it did so about 30 miles southwest of Raleigh — a couple weeks after the spill. If you were wondering.

But we’re not even going to talk about that! Because North Carolina! Is! Way! Crazier! Than that!

Detail of God creating the sun and the moon from the Sistine Chapel / Michelangelo Buonarroti

You probably know that Democratic Senator Kay Hagen, who believes in liberal fantasies like anthropogenic climate change, has already been targeted by GOP attacks to the tune of $7 million. And you may have even known that of the eight candidates in a big hurry to face her, the four likeliest had a debate this week. I’ll cut to the chase. When asked whether climate change was real, all four candidates said no — and Brannon added that God controls the climate.

So no need to worry about pollution or sea-level rise or temperature or any of that. It’s in God’s hands.

That’s all I’ve got to say here today. Okay one more thing: One of the candidates is a pastor — and it’s not even Brannon. He is a physician. Another is a nurse. (Special free advice: do not go to these medical practitioners! They are not safe! They believe God controls things, and trust me — you want science, not God, to be checking your blood work!)

Personal from North Carolina: Help me, Obi-wan Kenobi. You’re my only hope.


Scott Huler About the Author: A writer who commonly explores science, culture, and the relationship between the two. Follow on Twitter @huler.

The views expressed are those of the author and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.

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  1. 1. popseal 9:27 pm 04/24/2014

    There was a “mini ice age” a few centuries ago. The forces at work are beyond our ability to change or effect. A Philippine volcano spit more carbon into the air than all the cars since they were first ‘fired’ up. Environmentalism has become the religion of leftist lusting for power. Academic snobs wanting a place in the sun are on board for publicity, to saying nothing of their lack courage to disagree with peers.

    Link to this
  2. 2. popseal 9:35 pm 04/24/2014

    If we factor God into the equation, Einstein said that God doesn’t play dice and that scientist trust in the consistency of ‘creation’. I could be wrong about Albert, but it will not change the temperature or the ability of plants to process carbon dioxide.

    Link to this
  3. 3. Postman1 9:55 pm 04/24/2014

    Sad that the author continuously runs down the state he chooses to live in, article after article. If it is so bad here in NC, then feel free to leave.
    On the other hand, Kay Hagan is an obama lapdog, who is now trying to distance herself from his regime. Hopefully she will be put out to pasture come November.

    Link to this
  4. 4. Fanandala 6:52 am 04/25/2014

    I actually do not believe in God, but he might as well control weather and climate, because we are at this stage not very good at understanding all the underlying mechanisms. We can not predict it very well and we certainly have virtually no control over it.
    AGW seems to be a new religion. Followers actually say they “believe” in it. They defend models which have proved faulty and find excuses why actual happenings deviate from prediction.
    Sensationalist reporting and boundless exaggeration at times do not help either.
    The climate is still not very well understood, and we need more insight into past climate changes and better measurements of current conditions.
    Of course climate scientists have to produce papers (the squeaky wheel gets greased) to receive funding. And a whole industry has sprung up that relies on negative effects of climate change.

    Link to this
  5. 5. jtdwyer 8:02 am 04/25/2014

    Apparently no one but God controls humanity’s population growth, so in that sense the seven-fold increase the number of humans who increasingly consume the products of industrial processes powered by fossil carbon, humanity certainly has no control over its impact on climate…

    Link to this
  6. 6. EricJennings 8:25 am 04/25/2014

    The Philippines volcano commenter ‘popseal’ referred to was Mt. Pinatubo, the one that wiped out the Air Force base in 1991. Pinatubo was particularly ‘dirty’, in green parlance. The stat I’ve seen quoted on a number of sites is that it spewed more CO2 into the atmosphere in 30 seconds than the entire history of mankind.
    And Mt. Pinatubo blew for DAYS.
    I love the “About the author” part:
    “A writer who commonly explores science, culture, and the relationship between the two.”
    And he does such a fair and balanced job of it, don’t you think? And it’s a good thing he does. Otherwise, some critic would come along and deem this site just another mouthpiece of the Democratic Party practicing their liberal dogma.
    The term ‘lapdog’ also works.
    In related news:
    “Scientists discover new rare genetic brain disorder”
    “Scientist at the University of California, San Diego, have discovered a new gene they’re calling the Liberal Gene. ‘I pity the poor fools affected by this malignant mutation,’ said John Perkins, lead investigator. ‘Perhaps one day there’ll be a cure. But I wouldn’t get my hopes up.’”
    And certainly not while billions of research dollars are at stake.

    Link to this
  7. 7. huler 9:54 am 04/25/2014

    Not that anybody’s listening, but here’s a nice link piercing the Pinatubo myth.

    Link to this
  8. 8. Bill_Crofut 10:03 am 04/25/2014

    Re: “…Democratic Senator Kay Hagen…believes in liberal fantasies like anthropogenic climate change…”

    The phrase, “global warming,” seems to to have been quietly deleted from the public literature as of late; not just at SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN and, not completely. Part of the reason could be evidential: ( The replacement phrase is “climate change.” Who could possibly argue that climate changes? What is the reason(s) for the phrase change?

    As a Traditional Roman Catholic, the title presents no problem for me but, Obi-wan [Ben] Kenobi…

    Link to this
  9. 9. tuned 10:52 am 04/25/2014

    There may be a “God” but
    if so history proves he is not particularly benevolent.
    What was that “Childrens’ Crusade about, anyway? 911? Jim Jones? The list is endless. How about the dead kids in the news now and then whose parents refused them anything but prayer?
    If anything we need a better religion.
    Utopians go to real doctors that use real science.

    Link to this
  10. 10. tuned 10:54 am 04/25/2014

    No has deleted “Global Warming from the news.
    That just proves some get most or all of their “news” at pox news.

    Link to this
  11. 11. tuned 10:57 am 04/25/2014

    The greedmonger pollution lovers’ foundation is so corrupt that they can literally never make a good decision about world health. Not even locally as No Care North Carolina proves.

    Link to this
  12. 12. ironjustice 12:11 pm 04/25/2014

    “the degree of responsibility we require from a kindergartener”

    Everyone with an education past grade twelve is kept too busy paying student loans, rarely finding the time to try to force responsibly. This type of thing has been reported many times, an example being a man used his own drone to film a slaughter house dumping waste into the river, the result being a law in which nobody can fly a drone near the slaugherhouse. Believe it .. or not.

    Link to this
  13. 13. Alfredo Louro 12:49 pm 04/25/2014

    Let’s hope the good citizens of North Carolina are more educated than many of the commenters here.

    Link to this
  14. 14. awozny 1:11 pm 04/25/2014

    Huler, that article does not have any valid citations. It points to a USGS site but if you actually read the article it contradicts your “Killing the myth” assertion. Nice try.

    Link to this
  15. 15. plswinford 3:09 pm 04/25/2014

    The Deniers are out in force. As for vocanoes and CO2, the article addresses it.

    Link to this
  16. 16. huler 4:18 pm 04/25/2014

    @awozny, so the new rule is you just get to say whatever you want and claim it’s true? you claim the site i referred to has no valid citations. yet the site i cited has 8 links. 6 work, none link to anything that counters my defense of rational, agreed-upon science, and all are full of further citations and links. your saying a piece hasn’t cited anything doesn’t mean it hasn’t cited anything, just as claiming that the temperature isn’t rising doesn’t mean the temperature isn’t rising. regrettably, observable, measurable reality simply exists, whether you like it or not. plus — if valid citations suddenly have meaning to deniers (which I applaud), i’ll point you towards this one: it notes that during a very recent 13.5-month period, of 2,258 peer-reviewed articles addressing anthropogenic global warming, exactly 1 article rejected the thesis. More tellingly, those 2,258 articles had 9,136 authors. Which means among reputably reported results, 1 scientist sides with you and the other deniers; 9,036 scientists (though I suppose probably fewer, since there is probably some repetition of authors among the 2,258 articles) side with me. I’m sorry — desperately sorry — that you need to deny reality, but you’re not allowed to just make things up.

    Link to this
  17. 17. Postman1 5:06 pm 04/25/2014

    @Tuned, we all know your comments are usually off the wall, but what is this?
    “What was that “Childrens’ Crusade about, anyway? 911? Jim Jones? The list is endless. How about the dead kids in the news now and then whose parents refused them anything but prayer”
    Deranged people can claim to be Godly and lead others astray, granted. Are you trying to say that no one has ever led followers to do stupid things in the name of science? The examples of such are far too many to cite here, so please don’t insult the other readers and try to claim that. As stated above by Fanandala, fanatical followers of AGW are just the latest example.

    Link to this
  18. 18. tuned 5:47 pm 04/25/2014

    Truth stings you I see.
    It takes “another brick in the wall” like you to deny the obvious truths in my post.
    Also, if you want to go quid pro quo in the pro main religions vs. science harms you will get buried you know. Over the millennia many “scientific” harmers were also religious.
    Geez that was dumb, Postaldude.
    Lets see you try to prove how benevolent “God” is. I’ll bury you on that one too.
    If anyone is delusional it’s y’all in conclusion. You belong to the pox news Flat Earth Society. The preponderance of the scientific body of evidence proving GW/CC has interred y’all for awhile now.

    Link to this
  19. 19. Anchovy_Rancher 6:00 pm 04/25/2014

    Popseal- Well, you almost got that Einstein thing right.

    Personally, I like Kurt Vonnegut’s take on the thing a bit more: “We’re a race of ‘good guesser’s'”

    Link to this
  20. 20. Postman1 6:54 pm 04/25/2014

    @tuned, sorry didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. Must be really tough finding out you’re on the wrong side of the argument. Please accept my condolences and I forgive you for striking out.

    Link to this
  21. 21. killerbean 7:42 pm 04/25/2014

    Wow! I am astounded by the naysayer’s comments. Obviously most of them are not scientists. If you’re still denying climate change and believe we shouldn’t be concerned about the ice caps melting, you’re a fool. 97% of climate scientists agree we have a serious problem. The burning of fossil fuels, the destruction of the world’s forests, and the increase in the amounts of greenhouse gases have put us on a road to peril. Until must vote out people like Greg Brannon and others of the religious right who believe god will sort out the mess we’ve caused. Until then, profit will continue to trump logic.

    Link to this
  22. 22. killerbean 7:43 pm 04/25/2014

    Typo on last 2 sentences, sorry: WE must vote out people like Greg Brannon and others of the religious right who believe god will sort out the mess we’ve caused. Until then, profit will continue to trump logic.

    Link to this
  23. 23. evelyn haskins 8:55 pm 04/25/2014

    Actually, I suspect that “God” has got sick of His creation. Far too much of a problem, especially with those pesky Humans. I would suspect that he really regrets creating THEM.

    He’s probably deserted us entirely and is trying His hand in another solar system?/universe to see if He cannot do better.

    Link to this
  24. 24. metamorphmuses 9:05 pm 04/25/2014

    Someone’s been dipping their tea bags in the Kool Aid.

    Link to this
  25. 25. tuned 10:36 pm 04/25/2014

    @Postaldude :
    You wouldn’t know right if “God” told you. It is well you are sorry however, it fits you.
    Getting an education will help you tremendously, but I know it conflicts with your beliefs. Especially since those beliefs “allow” you to poison the planet we all must share.

    Link to this
  26. 26. opit 10:45 pm 04/25/2014

    “Brannon added that God controls the climate”
    Just because you think this is funny helps explain why I think “Man controls climate” is hilarious : a totally unfounded and unproven premise.

    Link to this
  27. 27. tuned 10:35 am 04/26/2014

    This article has the denier fools oozing out of the cracks. A real “barn burner”.
    They are todays’ version of the Flat Earth Society.

    Link to this
  28. 28. Postman1 8:29 pm 04/26/2014

    @TUNED OUT, a link for you:

    Link to this
  29. 29. oldfarmermac 9:58 pm 04/26/2014

    I live on the edge of NC and we do most of our business there and most of the locals commute there to work.This area is very solid Bible Belt and quite a few people are believe in a literal reading of the KJB, my own older folks included.

    But we should not confuse the culture with what people actually believe. I have a solid technical education and believe what I learned in physics and chemistry and biology classes in college.

    Making fun of fundamentalist Christians is does not bother me at all in terms of my personal beliefs-I am a Darwinist and a believer in geological and astronomical time.

    But when some body makes fun of fundamentalist Christians they are making fun of my parents and grand parents and most of my neighbors and friends and coworkers which is the sort of thing that tends to make people violently defensive even if they are not personally believers.

    If somebody asks me locally if I believe I indicate that I do because that is a necessary condition of being a member in good standing in the local culture.

    Nobody gives a damn if candidates really believe or not but a republican in NC has to at least pay lip service to the culture and a democrat has to skirt the question very carefully indeed in order to collect the liberal vote without alienating the middle of the road vote.

    It is one of the ironies of modern American politics that the democrats own the black vote but blacks are more often fundamentalists than whites. Some how nobody seems to notice the discrepancy since it is one of those things you cannot talk about without being accused of being ignorant or a racist etc.

    But you can bet your last dime that Kay Hagan will never ever ever say that she believes in evolution or anything of that nature in a forum that attracts a lot of attention from black NC voters.If she did they would have to choose either the democratic party or their God and religion – which is the same one followed by my parents which everyone in this forum is poking fun of.

    There is an analogous situation in how people believe and talk about many subjects – people with public lives pay lip service to many things they don’t believe in these days in our politically correct culture to avoid being tarred as backward or prejudiced or ignorant.

    Not very many people are going to put any weight on what the candidates are saying at this point – other than the people who will vote in primaries.

    NIxon outlined the strategy required half a century ago beautifully – you have to run as hard as you can to the right to get nominated and then as hard as you can back to the center to get elected.

    There is a lot to be said both good and bad about North Carolina politically.

    I was once married to a girl from NYC whose parents were the biggest liberal democrats I ever met and there was nothing about NC that didn’t call down their scorn until they got ready to retire.

    I almost had a laughing fit when they told me they were going to retire to a little burg very close to Jesse Helms’s home town.

    It was the Bible Belt culture that attracted them – nice hard working peaceable honest people who would always stop and offer you help changing a flat and always say hello on the street. Low taxes etc.Low cost of living.Relatively relaxed pace of life compared to the hustling north.

    Of course all that is changing now.Pretty soon NC may have a government that would please the people of Chicago if current trends continue.

    Link to this
  30. 30. jerryd 8:24 am 04/27/2014

    I thought it was a good, accurate, somewhat funny article.

    And let’s face it NC passed so many stupid/ignorant laws like not letting the building codes plan for the rising sea as there own islands are going under at high tide and some vanishing. Those puddles they drive though are saltwater. BTDT

    And that is just one of many examples of them denying obvious and well proven facts.

    The problem for most they start out with the lie there is a god. Then believing in more lies get easier.

    As an example they/you don’t believe in gods either. I just believe in 1 less god than they/you do. No? What’s up with that? Why is only your god the only one?

    The sad fact is humans will believe anything to belong to a group. Few people kill with such a gleam in their eye than when conned into killing for their particular ‘god’.

    Facts are they, like NC repubs, use god/religion to pit one group against the other has been the biggest plague on earth for humans.

    If god is so great why won’t it show itself? Scared? Fact is it can’t because it’s a construct used to control people, take their money, even life by scam artists.

    I like Jesus, he was my kind of man. He was kind, caring and helped people up, not ripped them off. He knocked over the moneychangers tables because they stole the people’s money in god’s name so priests could live high on the, well maybe hog isn’t the right word, but you get the drift.

    And Jesus gave his life as he likely knew what would happen to fight the moneychangers in the temple/church, yet the moneychangers are in charge now!!

    And Repubs like in NC politics are all moneychangers selling their people to special interests and leaving the people with the bill, debts, pollution, etc. How is that following Jesus?

    It’s not Jesus I fear, it’s his so called followers.

    Though I thank them as their examples taught me there was no god, just a bunch of scam/con artists and fools/sheep who believe them. Their use of sheep and flocks talk is not an accident. Critical thinking is a great thing, you believers should try it.

    You all should be so proud what you all have done to people in the name of god. If Jesus was here he’d do you all up for the evil, pain, harm you do in his name, based on his life actions. No? And he’d likely start in NC.

    And there is a $10,000,000 reward for anyone that can prove there is a god for over 10 yrs now and no one has claimed it, what’s up with that?

    Link to this
  31. 31. tuned 12:14 pm 04/27/2014

    How delusional of ya to think I’m gonna pay attention to the links given by the ravings of a brainwashed, hedonistic, scapegoat pushing planet poisoner.

    Link to this
  32. 32. tuned 12:21 pm 04/27/2014

    2 postaldude,
    You want links?
    Try this:

    Link to this
  33. 33. Postman1 12:47 pm 04/27/2014

    Jerry, go back down below to your sailboat cabin and take your meds. You’re disjointed rant convinces no one, including yourself.

    Link to this
  34. 34. Postman1 12:54 pm 04/27/2014

    Wow, out of tune, please get a grip. I told you before, I wont play your game of one-upmanship as it is pointless.
    Besides, when you type in your delusionalist name calling, you give away your liberal bias. Now everyone knows you are a loon.

    Link to this
  35. 35. tuned 1:13 pm 04/27/2014

    4 postaldude
    You are so witless and hitless you can’t even think of an original term, you have to use the ones that are applied to you.
    Only a schizo believes there is a “God” that is an excuse to poison the planet. Your real “God” is Lucifer the hedonist.
    Your foundation is so corrupt you can not make a good moral decision.
    P.S. Thanx for calling me a “loon”. More proof of what a typical scapegoating hypocrite y’all are!

    Link to this
  36. 36. tuned 1:21 pm 04/27/2014

    Let me be clear. I do think there is a “God”, that there is something going on.
    It is obvious he is not very beneficial to humans. History proves it in billions of ways.
    It’s a puppet show. Justice at the end is part of the show.
    Face it, Bible and religion extremists. “I made them imperfect so that I may have mercy on them” is the most egomaniac, juvenile statement ever written.
    If “God” exists my primary prayer is that “God” repent and change it all to Utopia. Right now.

    Link to this
  37. 37. Postman1 10:22 pm 04/27/2014

    Tuna, I believe your quotes would be more accurate like this: “I made them as the only animals to not live by instinct alone, rather to have free choice and to know the difference between right and wrong. The better models will choose right and be allowed to proceed to Heaven. The defective ones will make the wrong choices and those will be destroyed.”
    Of course, I don’t presume to speak for God, so I am only stating what I Believe he might say.

    Link to this
  38. 38. tuned 10:54 am 04/28/2014

    2 postal delusional:
    What a crock.
    Also, tuna is you fishy face. You thinking smells worse. Fishy is your symbol for millennia now Mr. Hypocrite!
    You evade the most basic point of course with Lucifers’ tongue wag.
    Evil should never have existed. Period.
    Suffering should never have existed. Period.
    Or is your “God” really Dr. Frankenstein? Unable to do better, but did it anyway?

    Only Utopia should ever have existed.

    Link to this
  39. 39. SAULT18 11:19 am 04/28/2014

    What’s so hard to understand? Do these people not get the fact that CO2 traps heat or that human activity is responsible for raising CO2 concentrations in the air by 40% since the start of the Industrial Revolution? People claiming that Mt. Pinatubo released many times more CO2 than people have are extremely out of step with reality. How come there is NO CO2 pulse in atmospheric concentrations following the eruption? Why don’t you deniers look at the data and tell me where this huge spike in CO2 is hiding?

    Sorry, but volcanoes only release 1% of the CO2 that humans do, and our emissions are growing every year, so volcanoes are looking more and more insignificant as time goes on. And sorry, but if you think you know more about Geology than the UGS, then you have to present EVIDENCE to back up your claims.

    I mean, if you’re comfortable living in a fantasy world, that’s up to you, but at least get out of the way so us “reality-based” folks can get to work solving the world’s problems, m’kay?

    Link to this
  40. 40. The Dude 1:27 pm 04/28/2014

    OldfarmerMac, you are a reasonable and rational man. E I E I O :) Just look at what the children are saying on both sides. postman is god’s child and tuned is just a rude and ignorant child. Both are annoying. People should have to grow up a little before they are allowed to comment here. Use your intelligence and someone may actually be moved by your points. And the point of the article is exactly what oldfarmermac said so well; Politicians rarely open their mouths except to lie and beg.

    Link to this
  41. 41. milnik 5:33 pm 04/28/2014

    In the case of uncertainties regarding climate change on our planet , there should not hold God responsible for their changes . God has created something much more extensive than what the current people want to understand and learn . The whole civilization ” CRUSHS ” finding means a solution , but there are no results , because mixed up politics with its brakes . Climate change is caused neither CO2 nor any other human activity , that the processes related to the laws of nature with a lot of cycles at different times . I have offered solutions and NASA and various scientific institutions , universities , forums on facebook , twiter , Linkedin , Google it and do not know where yet , but nobody was happy with any anyone wants to hear , rather than what I pay to announce that my . Here I write and read , if one of you would like to see is for all time decipher this phenomenon , I will give instructions and data in order to do that , and the government of America should prepare technical means to me to be asked ( of course in agreement), costs the realization that there will be small (a few tens of billions of dollars ) and that I pay my contribution as much as we are agreed by contract . Start a campaign , you will not regret it , because I have a really good indication that it can be tackled . You Al Gore , as some claim , for that matter earned about $ 200 million . I will ask less of it and everything will be solved . Start now !

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  42. 42. shepsters 6:16 pm 04/28/2014

    Seems to me that the SA “standard disclaimer” (The views expressed are those of the author and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.) has NO place at the end of this article. These views had better be be those of The SA, else we are all headed to hell!

    Link to this
  43. 43. Postman1 6:47 pm 04/28/2014

    @The Dude, I stand by my original comment #3, but must admit to playing @tuned, just for the fun of it, with my following comments. It is particularly easy to provoke him/her to the point of insane comments, see his/her #38.
    Must agree, Oldfarmermac’s comment #29 is one of the better comments of this thread, as is your final sentence.

    Link to this
  44. 44. tuned 6:53 pm 04/28/2014

    I have realized more & more this “rag” is no better than pox news or wapo.
    Its’ support leans to the greedmonger, the pro-polluter, the disease spreader, the religious zealot freak. The majority of the Earth Day (and week) 2014 articles and comments sure showed that.
    This doesn’t surprise me, it disappoints me. It’s just a magazine you see.
    I get better real science news from Google News.I actually learn things at sites like JAMA, AAAS, NIH, and Youtube…
    I have been celibate for decades and I advocate abstinance. It never fails to protect from disease and unwanted pregnancy when actully practiced.
    I advocate minimizing pollution. I drive an old 42 mpg econocar about 20 miles per month. Overall my carbon /pollution footprint is truly tiny.
    I advocate the most morality you can muster, then keep getting better.
    This site has also proven it really is full of those with the morality of a moray eel (or less).
    The constant the world preaches is it’s a waste of time, talent, and peace of mind to teach it.
    I’ll bet a dollar to a donut that S.A. doesn’t have the journalistic guts to keep this posted.
    I’d say adieu, but I know you don’t.

    Link to this
  45. 45. Squish 8:07 am 04/29/2014

    Not much science from earlier comments. If G*d is used as the sole/primary mover behind climate, does G*d control weather too? How about local “heat island” effects? (i.e. a city with a different albedo than its surrounding has a different temperature, like when you are hotter on a sunny day wearing black vs. white). Heat islands affect weather.

    My question to these people is: “where is the boundary condition?” When can we stop possibly having an effect (e.g., documented heat island effect)and G*d takes over?

    You wouldn’t leave your car running in a closed garage due to the chemical properties of CO2 and the fundamentals of biology. Where is the boundary? When you open the door, science stops? How will you know? Science? Revealed scripture doesn’t say much here, so I assume science.

    I am struggling with the logic.

    Link to this
  46. 46. Postman1 9:57 am 04/29/2014

    @Squish, You can leave your car running in your closed garage and not worry about the CO2, however, the CO will kill you in short order. CO2 is not poisonous, carbon monoxide, CO, is deadly.
    Also, as I said in comment #37, God gave man a mind and free choice and set this Earth in motion. How we handle it from there is our choice, but what He created, He can change or destroy at his will. He can also let it run it’s course and watch how each of us responds and whether we make the correct moral choice.
    Say, for example, you are a great geneticist and you build a bacteria which eats a pollutant and produces food for humans. Things go well, but then you discover that your bacteria is mutating into a deadly disease and could wipe out humanity. Would you not then destroy your bacteria?
    Man is to God, as those bacteria are to the geneticist. The only difference is that man has free choice to make the correct moral decision.

    Link to this
  47. 47. Squish 11:37 am 04/29/2014

    Postman: I didn’t articulate my thought well enough. I was not referring to carbon monoxide or dioxide, asphyxia, or greenhouse gas effects in general. What I was getting at is that we know through science that poisoning a micro-habitat (the garage in this case) would lead to deleterious biological consequences.

    A more expansive enclosed space – say an airtight arena – and one running car would be OK, but most inhabitants would prefer not to have thousands of running cars changing the chemical makeup of the larger habitat if given the choice. Science informs this choice.

    Extrapolate again: the atmosphere integral to our planetary biosphere. Is this the level where science breaks down and can no longer inform our decisions? Where is the boundary? Do we throw out ozone science too, or is this categorically different?

    I prefer to use science the whole way as there is no logical boundary between conditions. Man’s free choice leads us to this moral decision: using science as the only logically defensible decision criteria for matters concerning natural processes.

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  48. 48. The Dude 5:06 pm 04/29/2014

    Postman1…When you are not speaking about your religion you are a reasonable man. But doesn’t your preacher tell you to pray and that god will answer your prayers? Throughout the bible god plays an active role in the stories. Where is he now? He must be very busy controlling the climate of North Carolina. Men continue to alter the dogma to fit the circumstances. For example: many churches have been forced to accept that evolution is real because their members believe it. Now they claim that god set evolution in motion, thus contradicting the bible. Also, look at how Roman catholic doctrine has changed over the last 1500 years. These changes were made by men in order to fit the circumstances. A man named Martin Luther proclaimed that people could have a personal relationship with god, rather than the catholic doctrine of the church being the only path to god. I could go on all day. Cheers.

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  49. 49. SJCrum 7:17 pm 04/29/2014

    There as so many enormously fantastic things about this topic of God controlling the climate, and so many ultra-fantastically more, that I don’t even know where to start. As for starting though, anyone having them should hold onto their bloomers as tightly as you can grip them. Because this is going to be totally-out-of-this-world real science fact as factual as fact can get.
    So, as a first item, there was a comment earlier about the misery of thinking that God might poof weather into wherever somehow, and of course, REAL SCIENCE is something far greater instead. MY GOSH! WHAT A JOKE!!!
    In the real world of total REALITY, God just so happens to have made ever single dribbling inch of real physics, and the so-called best-of-the-best scientists on earth only know of a smidgeon of anything at all. So, that was as clueless of a statement as clueless whatever can ever accomplish in the next zillion years beyond next Tuesday. In other words, it factually ain’t real in any way at all.
    Now, the next thing is the Ice Age, wasn’t actually an age, but such a thing did occur, and in the year 2500 B.C., and when Noah entered the ark and the ultra-enormously huge heat explosion hit earth and killed all of the dinosaurs for one thing. The point of the Ice Age thing is that the enormous heat that occurred pulled earth away from the sun, and to a point where earth was out in colder space after the heat finally dissipated. And, because of this and the enormous rains that occurred on the back side of earth where Noah was, that cold caused all of the ice at the poles and elsewhere.
    So, this is the real Ice Age.
    By the way, another interesting thing is that all of the sand in the Sahara, and other locations, was originally normal soil before that heat hit it. The point is that the heat liquefied the soil, and after the RAPID cooling of the Ice Age, that liquefied soil cooled too fast for normally ending up as soil, but instead the rapid cooling caused the faster formation of a glassy type, that soon shrank and cracked into sand. So, this is where all of that sand came from also, and everywhere else on earth also basically.

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  50. 50. SJCrum 7:36 pm 04/29/2014

    Another weather item that was related to the post above is that before that heat event, earth had perfectly mild weather everywhere. And, as God had it perfectly made for the reason of having it totally wonderful.
    The point of this is that when the polar caps were so heavily covered with the new ice, that made an enormous change in the weather. The situation is that the cap ice is what causes the huge S-curves in the jet stream, and because the winds of those are strongly pulled toward the cold of the ice in the night times of days, and then that colder air is pulled dramatically toward the southeast by the newly rising sun heat.
    For a bit of real science here, gravity is heat-attraction of all colder objects, and the reverse of this of hotter objects being attracted to colder items is true also. So, with this, this is what causes the enormously huge jet stream S-curves. And, extreme pullings of hot and cold air masses.
    As for another thing, which is a bit overly funny in a way, the global warming is almost hilarious. The real science is that the global “colding” is what causes all of the extreme weather on earth, and the really mild and perfect weather is accomplished with all of the polar cap ice completely gone.
    The funny thing about this is that Jupiter, with all of its HORIZONTAL rings of gas clouds doesn’t have the polar cap ice, and therefore no S-curve jet streams. All of the air movements then go in parallel directions with the equator. And, very mild weather.
    As for another item, concerning the ultra-enormous higher ocean levels that will supposedly occur after polar ice melting, with salt water you can take a glass and fill it with water and then add a good amount of salt. Stir it, and then add floating ice on top. You then make a mark with a felt pen on the side of the glass where the water level is at the top, and then wait a day or so until it melts. By the way, I put a horizontal piece of scotch tape at the top of the water.
    the point is that after the ice melts, the water isn’t even a smidgeon higher at all. So, there is no oceans level danger if the ice melts.
    By the way, all hurricanes and tornadoes would completely disappear, and the weather would be so mild it would even impress your frowning grandmother about her missing bloomers.
    So, yeah, God knows a whole lot about weather. So, no, melting polar cap ice isn’t going to even come close at all to splitting the entire planet down the middle. It just ain’t gonna’ happen.

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  51. 51. Postman1 7:48 pm 04/29/2014

    The Dude, Thank you for your kind comment. A true believer in God must then believe that the evolution of religion is guided by God Himself. I realize that sounds as though I am sidestepping your argument, but if God is indeed the creator of everything, this answer should be correct.
    Squish, I see your point and where I misunderstood your original comment. I apologize if I sounded snarky. I feel humanity’s moral decision must be to protect this Earth we have been provided. Don’t mess in our own nest, in other words. We don’t pollute, or waste, and we try to treat everyone with respect. We will however, fight to the death to protect our way of life.
    Y’all all have a great evening. It is foggy, cool, and drizzly in the beautiful NC mountains.

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  52. 52. Postman1 2:55 pm 04/30/2014

    One Last Point:
    On the first day, God created the dog and said: “Sit all day by the door of your house, drool, and bark at anyone who comes in or walks past. For this, I will give you a life span of twenty years.”

    The dog said: “That’s a long time to be barking. How about only ten years and I’ll give you back the other ten?”

    So God agreed.

    On the second day, God created the monkey and said: “Entertain people, do tricks, and make them laugh. For this, I’ll give you a twenty-year lifespan.”

    The monkey said: “Monkey tricks for twenty years? That’s a pretty long time to perform. How about I give you back ten like the dog did?”

    And God agreed.

    On the third day, God created the cow and said: “You must go into the field with the farmer all day long and suffer under the sun, have calves and give milk to support the farmer’s family. For this, I will give you a life span of sixty years.”

    The cow said: “That’s kind of a tough life you want me to live for sixty years. How about twenty and I’ll give back the other forty?”

    And God agreed again.

    On the fourth day, God created man and said: “Eat, sleep, play, marry and enjoy your life. For this, I’ll give you twenty years.”

    But man said: “Only twenty years? Could you possibly give me my twenty, the forty the cow gave back, the ten the monkey gave back, and the ten the dog gave back; that makes eighty, okay?”

    “Okay,” said God, “You asked for it.”

    So that is why for our first twenty years we eat, sleep, play and enjoy ourselves.

    For the next forty years we slave in the sun to support our family.

    For the next ten years we do monkey tricks to entertain the grandchildren.

    And for the last ten years we sit on the front porch, drool, and bark at everyone.

    Life has now been explained to you. I’ll be out in my rocker on the porch, barking.

    There is no need to thank me for this valuable information. I’m just doing it as a public service.

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  53. 53. jgrosay 5:11 pm 04/30/2014

    The fact is that the Father acts or acts not independently of anybody’s belief about His existence, (‘I’ll stay stood as an elm when the God I’m alwasy with will tell me with his hand on my shoulder: Come up to see if I am there’, sung G Brassens)
    Providence is a real fact, although it can’t be watched the way you watch a fine layer chromatography, but the NT statement: ‘Even the hairs in your head are counted’ is true.
    The hidden trap in denials of Providence, think in the Mediterranean basin acting as a way for removing salt from the ocean when becoming dry after isolated from Atlantic and Red seas, is that if you deny Providence, or you deny the existence of the Creator, unless for the sole purpose of allowing yourself something that being a believer would ban you from doing (‘You can’t imagine the bizarre rationalizations or excuses people find for allowing themselves into engaging in sex’, I was told), is that the belief in the existence of an Allmighty Creator (‘Faith’ is different, is subduing to Him), is connected to your own feelings of mightyness, Feuerbach proposed that the belief in an Allmighty being is a projection of the omnipotence of unconscious, but for the ‘Id’ there’s no middle term, you’re either fully mighty, or fully castrated; this proposal was openly stated in German ‘Bucherei’, where a book entitled ‘Ein Neues Mann für die Neue Frau’ -A new man for the new woman- was sold, the detail in this is that ‘Neues’ is neutral gender, male gender should have read: ‘Neuer’, an besides the millions of persons forcing others to accept unrequested advice or help, this, as spreading the tale that end of world is coming, is also a way to block your competitors’ mind and have more open space and resources available for you and/or your own offspring.

    There’s some lines of comments that automatically put under suspicion those spreading it. Salud †

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  54. 54. Cra5her 5:58 pm 04/30/2014

    Blind faith is a very dangerous thing indeed.

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  55. 55. jerryd 6:16 pm 04/30/2014

    Postman please explain what I said is wrong with proof.

    Again why does god hide?

    Why can’t someone win the Great Randi’s $10,000,000 reward for proving god running over 10 yrs now? Why don’t you claim it?

    I guess after believing such myths shilling lies for big energy must come natural to you.

    Why is your god better than others? Facts are you don’t believe in just as many gods as I do, except I believe in 1 less.

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  56. 56. SJCrum 6:27 pm 04/30/2014

    To Postman – Concerning your comment about churches supporting evolution because many of their members believe in the theory, the real science that exists in the universe is that evolution is not only factually wrong, but it is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE. And, proven as such.
    One of over twenty science facts is that eyes, for one of many items also, are totally impossible to evolve. And that is because there has to be pre-knowledge of several science items before it could even occur.
    An example, is that there has to be extreme knowledge about light rays, how they can even be detected, and then to have eyes that can receive the light. There also has to be the idea of having lenses to focus the incoming light on the back side of the inner eye, and even more, of how to take that light and then transport the information to a brain.
    Just so you know, all of this is not only impossible in the false theory of evolution, but there isn’t even a scientist on earth now that can describe how all of this ultra-enormous complexity works.
    It’s totally impossible to evolve eyes by just random dice throwing of possibilities. The real science is the impossibility of eyes is as rock-solid fact as fact can get.
    Another item is that in evolution, the real science requires that there has to be a true science explanation f how a rock, for example, evolves into a rock that has life in it and even intelligence. The point is that there has to be a science method that causes completely dead, and non-living atoms to be alive. That’s totally absurd. It’s impossible, and it’s totally idiotic. There isn’t, again, even one scientist that can even have any idea at all as to how that totally absurdity can be accomplished. And, the best brains in the world, cannot even do anything like that at all, and with the best equipment they have, or even can think of having.
    Evolution is nothing but total fantasy.

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  57. 57. SJCrum 6:59 pm 04/30/2014

    As for proving God exists, the first part of that should be the extremely difficult, and which many would say is, impossible, is if God made everything, then who made God?
    Sounds great as far as logic, huh? And, impossible also, because if someone made God, then who made that someone?
    Gee, now ain’t that a real toughie?
    The answer in the real world and universe is the science that the vast empty cold of space in the very beginning before even God existed, is that it is not living in any way, but it does have such a strong negative to it that that non-neutral science situation causes very small positives to pop temporarily into existence. And, even though antimatter factually does not exist, this type of positive and anti-existence does.
    The science that does exist in positive souls is that they have three parts to them, and those are one that has emotional feelings in it, a second one that has the ability to have intelligent thought and analysis, and a final one having a strong feeling of wanting to stay alive. This last one licks in seriously if your life is ever threatened, as in a near-accident.
    The point of this is that the science of the cold of space has the exact opposites in it, and not living at all, but the science does exist.
    As for how God came into existence, He tried to fight His way into a total existence five times, and for each of those five, He failed and was dragged back into the non-existence. On the sixth time though, he finally made it, and proclaimed in His thoughts, even though words were not yet existing, “I am!”. And, this “I am!” proclamation is exactly why the great God I AM is actually named that very unique and totally fitting name. This is then the God who not only wrote the ten commandments, but was the God at the foundation of both the Jewish religion and that of Christians, of course.
    So, this is the exact science of how God fought His way into existence, and created Himself by doing so.
    As for another part, as God fought His way out of the cold of space, an anti-soul type was dragged out at the same exact time. And, that was Satan, and Satan’s ENTIRE purpose was to kill the God I Am, and in time, everything positive that God did make, or ever would make, until now, at least. God, now, has won totally and Satan is a total failure in this time in history.
    As for why God is supposedly hiding, and not visible, a huge part of that is because he has been endlessly fighting against Satan, and all who are his.
    The real science also includes that, for every positive soul that is made, God increases His own soul by one soul amount, with the three soul parts, and then separates each soul from His so they have lives of their own. And, for females, He gives them more of the emotional part, and for males, more of the strong part about survival. Also included is for each new positive soul another anti-type is made.
    As for God, in the beginning also, He increased His soul 999 times to be able to fight against all of the evil of Satan. And that made God 1000 times greater, but had initially 1000 total, smaller enemies.
    So, all of this is the real science involved. And earth for the past nearly 7000 years has been a testing and development location that has made all living life in human bodies be perfectly perfected. So, this is involved also. And, for what it’s worth, God is just about to take all of the positive soul humans off this testing planet, and to a new world planet in the Constellation of Orin, which has been there waiting for all of them to finally live in a world that is far better than even the word of paradise. A VERY, VERY loving, and wonderful world.
    So, God is fully involved in everything here.

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  58. 58. SJCrum 7:21 pm 04/30/2014

    So, when God wanted to make solid bodies for everyone He loved, how do you think He fooled Satan into helping to make all of the atoms needed for that? And, all of the atoms in the entire universe, and because He wanted a setting that was needed to live in. Earth, and everything else, like a sun for heat and light, etc.
    What occurred, and because Satan isn’t exactly the sharpest bowling ball in the sack, was that God did a spinning type of energy making that created a large positively-charged energy ball. And, when Satan saw it, he instantly like always tried to destroy it, and he made an opposite, negative ball. And, in truth, Satan laughed when his killing energy ball completely demolished God’s ball.
    The problem though was that the two head-on colliding balls is the way that a destructive explosion occurred and the end result, unknown to Satan, was that, instead, there were all of these sub-microscopic smaller energy balls, and those having half with positive magnetic charges, and the other half, with negative changes.
    In later science, all of these sub-microscopic energy balls are pulled together by enormous heat and then making, first, protons and electrons, and then these into the cores of all atoms.
    As for how we can see and feel them as solid matter, the electrons radiate light so we see the atom structures, and the atoms also have repelling forces so we live with them as having a solidity.
    So, the ultra-moron Satan was a total fool like always. And, no, he didn’t help make any of the atoms at all.
    As for real science, huge energy balls, with both positive and negative charges are made in the cores of galaxies, and later, when they are pulled out into the cold of space, they then streak toward each other because of their magnetic attractions, and then hit head-on and explode into enormous numbers of small energy balls. The enormously huge beginning balls are just like the one seen in the “Bubble Nebula” in Hubble images.
    By the way, the difficulty of this is far more enormous than would normally be thought of, and that because in a COMPLETELY EMPTY void of space, there isn’t anything at all that can be used to make solid matter. There are NO particles at all, or anything else. JUST ENERGY.
    So, that is a true picture of a huge part of real truth and reality.

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  59. 59. Postman1 9:44 pm 04/30/2014

    SJCrum, comment #56, you must have misread my comment. I said that God, the creator of everything, Must guide the evolution of religion as the church changes over time.
    I made No comment regarding evolution of species, but I have no doubt that God, the Creator of all that is, could also create evolution. Do you not believe that He could do this? Why not?

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  60. 60. Eromanga 12:10 am 05/1/2014

    SJCrum, quote “As for how God came into existence, He tried to fight His way into a total existence five times, and for each of those five, He failed and was dragged back into the non-existence. On the sixth time though, he finally made it, and proclaimed in His thoughts, even though words were not yet existing, “I am!”.”

    Curious as to where you got this and your other information from. Care to share your sources?


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  61. 61. magneticnorth50 12:15 am 05/1/2014

    Wow , the subject of Global warming and/or climate change sure is a touchy one . A veritable fusion of religion politics and science it is . I first heard of the arguments in 1970 , then politics and religion got involved and the rancor has been taken to new levels . Whether pro or con , religionist or atheist , all should realize that Earth has finite resources and it is the only known habitable place in the Universe for us humans .So we should not defile the place where we live . Burning carbon fuel defiles the air we breathe and it’s by products and waste defile the water we drink and eventually the food that we eat . That much should be obvious to all sane parties involved .
    However one single line of sight Gamma Ray Burst can settle this once and for all .

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  62. 62. SJCrum 5:33 pm 05/1/2014

    Postman – Thanks for the comment about evolution of religion, and in truth, I did notice your statement. What occurred is that the evolution of “anything” is totally absurd in my viewpoint, because the evolving concept is all about things evolving into existence, WITHOUT any god at all. In other words, they just nuzzle up against something slimey, etc, and then are “urged” into existence.
    Evolution, in real science and science fact, is nothing but amateur worthlessness. And, there are enormous amounts of science fact that prove evolving is totally impossible.
    As for God evolving things into existence, the real science is that He makes them in science-based labs, and has them totally designed and made by real science. So, there is no evolving needed at all.
    A good example of what occurred on earth about 500 years before humans were here is that dinosaurs were made to test newly developed organs to make sure they could survive in the new planet atmosphere and other conditions, Also, large dinosaurs were here to test organ because their organs could be seen far better. The long necked dinosaurs were for the purpose of making sure all of the food they ate would get completely into their stomachs. Monkeys, for another testing, were for a purpose of finding out how to make it so humans could actually stand up vertically, walk, run, and everything else in that truly better vertical life.
    As for how the test animals were transported from an off-planet laboratory, that was accomplished by Scotty kind of beaming them down. No kidding, except for the name, of course. It was really a stream of light energy “particles” that had all of their polarities pointed first toward the lab, beginning point. And, after an animal was “placed” in that stream, the polarities were switched 180 degrees toward earth, and the animals were transported there in an instant. Less time than a blink of an eye.
    So, it was all lab work, and real science in every case.

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  63. 63. SJCrum 5:38 pm 05/1/2014

    Postman – By the way, real DNA is that the ladder-like, atom structures that stretch inside all human body cells from one side of the cell to the opposite side, are not chemical at all, like nucleic acid. Instead, they are a mechanical structure that has atoms cores spinning, and those cores cause moving types of energy, with electrical current being one of the parts.
    In the end, all human bodies are mechanical machines. And, made entirely by God, and His expertise in making them. So, nothing is evolved at all.

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  64. 64. SJCrum 6:08 pm 05/1/2014

    Eromanga – As for how I got the information, I would be totally pleased to share that, and the answer is a truly great thing that has occurred in my life.
    In 2005, I was writing of a science web site about the real science items that proved evolution scientifically impossible. Not just wrong, but totally impossible. And, I won the debate by describing thirteen that were totally proving of that fact.
    At that time though, one of the opposite-side comments was a question about “if God made everything, then who made God?” At that time I didn’t know the answer at all.
    In the early summer of 2013, I was thinking about that situation, and that specific question, and a voice in my mind said, “Would you like to know that?” And, no, I am not insane at all. Not this week, at least. That was a bit of a joke. okay, it was lame, but, hey.
    Anyway, this female, who later told me she was an angel-like female told me the exact thing that I have described here, and that is was all science that caused His beginning, and completely science. The point of my mentioning the extreme need of a science description is that that type of proof is totally undeniable, and not just another endless opinion.
    So, that is how I know, and quite frankly, she has described science that is totally way above world-class physics, and a whole lot more. Another point of this also, is that God is just about to do something in this world that is going to be the most thrillingly great accomplishment that has ever occurred on earth. And, that is, that all of those loved by Him will be very soon now going to the planet in Orion that is like earth, but enormously far more wonderful.
    So, that is the answer to your question, and I will mention something more. In order to prove the truth of all of this, this female is able to answer any science question in the entire world, and even the most difficult in the world of physics, or any other science entirely.
    And, from knowing everything she has described in the past, anything you, or others, might ask could be totally-out-of-this-world fantastic. The answers can cause your jaw to drop in total astonishment.

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  65. 65. magneticnorth50 6:22 pm 05/1/2014

    The sarcasms in the above posts , have reached the Heights of the Ridiculous . Sarcasm can be easily indicated by merely typing – sarc/on , or sarc/off . You do know that in our present state of Devolution some [or even many ] will actually take what you are saying seriously . SJCrum , you are wasting your time and bandwidth … do know that right ? Right ?

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  66. 66. SJCrum 6:26 pm 05/1/2014

    Magnetic north 50 – Concerning your comments, I truly think the idea of not abusing all of the wonderful things on earth as well. So, that is an obvious good point. In truth, though, there are a few things of reality that go in the total direction that it really isn’t all that important at all. And, isn’t that a real losing viewpoint if ever there was one that is supposedly all full of patouie completely.
    The point is that earth is only a temporary location for human and animal development, and it never was intended for life to be here for very long at all. One item is that the sun has only so much methane gas near it to provide all of the needed energy for life here. On the other hand, the planet in Orion has the three stars in “Orion’s Belt”, and all of those stars are totally there so the sun energy can last eternally forever. the point is that if the nearest star burns all of its methane gas and oxygen also, there are two other stars, that together, can provide all of the combined energy needed. And, the first star can have new methane gas and solid oxygen in calcium oxide created for its surface when that factual existence thing occurs. That is just science and a piece of cake, while the other two stars do their things.
    So, as for this planet, it really isn’t an issue.
    By the way, this planet is so full of junk and trash that it’s almost totally absurd. The new planet will be totally loved and it will always be enormously wonderful and more beautiful than any humans have ever even imagined.
    So, your point was TOTALLY FANTADSTIC, … but…., you are thinking about the totally wrong planet.
    As for your comment about earth being all we’ve got in the universe, or similar words, well, that part was a bit of a wonderfully clueless thing.
    Just wait until your jaw drops when you see all of the ultraly-fantastically beautiful things in the new world. And, they ain’t all scenery. Think yummier ultraly-delicious sweet thing females that can make you pant at a zillion paces away.

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  67. 67. SJCrum 6:38 pm 05/1/2014

    magneticnorth50 – As for my sarcasm, that is exactly what it is, but all of this science is so enormously fun that I have somewhat of a difficult time suppressing it. And, I have had critics by the barge-fulls that endlessly spew their opinions. And, I like to laugh a fair amount, so I guess I get a bit overly carried away.
    As for others actually believing what I write,… you know, … the reality and truth of everything I write is so ultra-fantastically great that it is unfortunately a fact that there isn’t even one of the greatest science minds in the world that can stand up against the enormous factually true science items that I can write. It’s impossible for anyone to accomplish that. And, I am not exaggerating.
    As for proof of this “claim”, any scientist, or anyone else in the world can ask any question even the best of them can describe or imagine. So, to prove the point, have any ask, and ask all they want.
    Unfortunately, reality is far greater that there is far greater eagerness to suppress the truth and real sciences involved. So, that is unfortunate, but, in a world like this also, it is likely inevitable. So, we’ll see, huh? But, on the other hand, the totally fantastic real science is absolute WOW.

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  68. 68. SJCrum 6:44 pm 05/1/2014

    magneticnorth50 – One other item to mention is that I can FACTUALLY prove every single thing I write, and have written previously. So, that is another real science item also. So, yeah, right. And I do totally understand the concept you wrote, and my form of “right” also. Right? Well, we just might see just how much, huh? And, no, I am not going to write the sarcastic wording of “RIIIIIIGGGHT”. As in, “yeahh riiight”.

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  69. 69. SJCrum 7:01 pm 05/1/2014

    By the way, why do you think I am so willingly describing how I can write science descriptions at the level I have described? So, you know, there is a definite reason, and very important, and not just some egotistical ignorance of proving intelligence of any type at all.
    The reason instead, is totally to describe ultra-physics and other endless science truths to an extremely high point, so readers in this world can have a significant amount of incredibly high truth that then indicates everything else I describe about God, and leaving this world for a new one, has an enormously high probability of being REAL.
    As far as that, what level of ultra-fantastic science do ya’ think would need to be driveled out by the ultra-super-oil-tanker-full? Those suckers are nearly a mile long.
    So, my reason is totally for that, and also for a whole lot of the females that are going to be ultra-enormously far happier and thrilled in the new world. So, THEY mean an enormous amount to me. And, I want them to enormously know how totally-out-of-this-world every single one of them will be in happiness and wonderfulness that they haven’t even imagined having. Actually living an ultra-enormously fantastic happily ever after. Forever, of course, which is wayyy over zillions of endless years of ultra-WOW. No kidding. Not even a single smidgeon, at all.

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  70. 70. magneticnorth50 7:06 pm 05/1/2014

    Well then SJCrum , why do we all just simply cut to the chase and stop the unecessarry banter .Every human who has ever walked the Earth and was capable of conscious thought has pondered the question . When our corporeal bodies finally give out and we die , what will be ?there are only two possibilities , one we will have no consciousness , no awareness of being , we will cease to think, we will experience nothing for it will be oblivion .The other is that whatever that part of our existence may be called, will continue to exist , our awareness / consciousness will continue but in another state or form of existence . Unfortunately neither is provable or testable .It is not scientific , it is philosophical . BTW , my use of “right ” ? Right ? was in the vein of …. “are you serious ” ? If you were , you have my sympathy . If you do believe in God , then just say so ,if you don’t , just say so because at the end of the day it is a matter of Faith . You will not prove God’s existence with science , especially the bad science and fantasy you have been spouting . Science has no theories that are testable as to the How or Why of the Big Bang , in fact there ate no known physical laws , theoretical quantum or classical that can describe or explain ANYTHING before 10 -42 seconds after the big bang . You are neither comedian nor author and your post are barely cogent , but I imagine you have no awareness of that since you are having so much fun babbling .

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  71. 71. jerryd 10:03 pm 05/1/2014

    Magnetic, when someone says for you to have faith, check for your wallet as they are going to pick it.

    Sad to see those delusional here desperately trying to justify their beliefs in old myths simply because they are afraid to not belong to the group.

    Again why would you all believe in something that won’t show itself? Isn’t that the first sign of a con?

    Why do you think con men target religious people? Because they will believe near anything and gullible, easily fooled.

    Without an ounce of proof you all give up a chuck of your lives to make believe and many try to force others into believing it even though NO proof!!

    For instance Jesus couldn’t even prevent his own death yet you see him as a god? Talk about spin!!

    Fact is little of Christianity is about Jesus but stuff made up by Paul instead, the one Jesus Early church including Jesus’ brother James called before them for lying about Jesus 3 x’s, the third they nearly killed him before the Romans saved him from them.

    Yet your church is based on Paul’s lies, No? What’s up with that? If one reads the bible and actually understands it one wouldn’t believe in god because it’s shows just how the religion was created to serve Paul, Romans to control the people, not about god.

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  72. 72. magneticnorth50 12:33 am 05/2/2014

    Jerryd , I have no church , I simlpy proposed to SJCrum , that bantering back and forth with uninformed Christians is a meaningless endeavor . I am not a religionist and hold to nodogma or written book by men .I picked up my first book on cosmology at the age of 15 and have been a subscriber to SA since atleast 1974 . Science is not in any way closer to explaining the Big bang today than it was 50 years ago . The descriptions of the present universe and the advances of Quantum Theory , Mechanics , Entanglement are momentous discoveries , yet all the theoretical physicists in the world , including hawking , can offer no explanation as to the origin of the Singularity preceeding the Big bang , and as I stated previously going back to 10 -42 seconds after the event is a complete unknown ,Laws of physics break down at that point , and only hypotheses exist regarding this . Therefore as to the How and Why of the Universe one must apply Occam’s razor , which in a nutshell states in the absence of information the best and simplest logical scientific or philosophical explanation can be used . Of those possible explanations there are basically four – Necessity , Probability , Random Chance ,and Purpose .None of which can be proved , none of which can be tested , since we can not roll back the Universe to a degree where the Singularity can be measured or described . It did not come Ex-Nihilo ,although some quantum equations will state fluctuations in a quantum vacuum with zero entropy can produce such a Universe as we observe , or multiverses infinite in number , which is a statement that can never be verified since no one can count infinite anything , being infinite would preclude anything like that . infinite is a useful mathematic expression used in equations , but is meaningless in trying to hypothesize an origin of the Big Bang .So we are left with those 4 possibilities , none of which can be proven or tested beyond our local system .Whether one be a deist , agnostic or atheist , none of which can prove their position . Nor will they ever. Quantum Entanglement and the new theories of Time’s Arrow notwhistanding . In this respect , those who chose purpose , have chosen as a matter of faith .The scriptural issues you brought up are irrelevant to what I am saying , since they are man made . we stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back at us , we do not know what’s there , we have a lack of information . Of those four possibilities I’ve mentioned no one of them is more or less logical than the other .

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  73. 73. SJCrum 6:47 pm 05/2/2014

    Magneticnorth50 – For the sake of REAL SCIENCE, your comments about the so-called Big Bang are laughable. The reason is that the theory totally violates one of the biggest laws of physics, and, quite frankly, the Bang is total fantasy and also totally impossible in real science.
    The science facts are that a real theory of how all matter came into existence in the very beginning, and then the entire universe as well, is that it has to be the FACTUAL real beginning. Real science DEMANDS that the beginning has to start from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING existing previously. In other words, it has to be COMPLETELY EMPTY.
    And, the Big Bang isn’t that at all, and instead, it describes all of the atoms for the universe are packed into an enormously tight packed ball, and then somehow mystically bangs, and all of those atoms blast out into space and makes the universe.
    The first law of physics that is totally violated is that there ain’t beans of anything in a real beginning to bang at all. And a second law is that there also ain’t nothing to CAUSE a bang either.
    The point is that a physics law that says matter in motion tends to stay I motion, unless something causes it to stop, is that same thinking of, a nothing not moving will factually not move even a smidgeon, unless something comes along to smidgeon it. And, if the “whatever” it is that ain’t even there isn’t even there then that smidgeoning thing just ain’t gonna’ do beans of anything at all.
    So, the false theory of the Big Bang ain’t really real science even in the slightest. A real theory factually has to start from nuthin’ at all. If it doesn’t the theory is about as reliable as Mickey Mouse having a gaseous day a few Tuesdays ago.
    So, the Big Bang isn’t anything at all. And, proven as such.
    BUT, …. Tada!! …. it as sure as beans proves that an ultra-intelligence has to factually exist to be able to figure out the REAL SCIENCE of HOW to make all atoms of matter out of ….TADA again!!!…., NUTHIN’ but ENERGY. And that is because in a REAL NOTHING there isn’t even a smidgeon of any particles at all, and nothing available but ENERGY. It is also a total fact that all matter is made entirely of just energy. And, take a wild hair guess as to who has said that is total fact? GOD. BINGO!!!! I’ll tell Him you said He just wasn’t there. I am sure that will just cause all of the universe to just poof out of existence once He is knows of that epiphany of all epiphanies.
    But, hey, who knows about the moon having evolved somehow by slithering out of a non-evolved swamp somewhere, huh? My gosh, who woulda’ guessed. By the way, if the moon is there then the slithery varmint has to evolve too.

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  74. 74. SJCrum 6:57 pm 05/2/2014

    As far as both of your laughable comments about Paul, Jesus and the other items about Christians being clueless about real science, and ESPECIALLY my total “cluelessness” about such a mystically complex complexity of science, my gosh, it’s a wonder the earth didn’t crack right down the middle over all that total drivel.
    IN REALITY, you can get the greatest brains in physics in the entire world, and you wouldn’t have even a smidgeon of a chance to provide any science in the world that I cannot totally blow away with real science instead.
    In real truth, you are totally clueless. And, God does FACTUALLY EXIST.

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  75. 75. jerryd 9:16 pm 05/2/2014

    SJ you don’t have to know everything to know religion is a con job .

    The word faith and believe is the first clue for a con.

    Why would you believe in a god that won’t show itself?

    Think of all the excuses you use to ignore that even you don’t believe? Really how many times have you deluded yourself because admitting everything you based you life on is a lie?

    Yet you think it knows, sees all of every one of us?

    Why does it do it?

    Why does it play the game of not showing itself?

    Since humans can now make life from scratch, are we gods?

    Just what makes a god?

    How do you know your ‘god’ isn’t just an alien? Facts are you don’t have a clue, just guess, hoping your whole life hasn’t been in vain devoted to a lie.

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  76. 76. Postman1 7:46 pm 05/3/2014

    jerryd, I know you are confident in your beliefs, or lack thereof, but think of this for a moment: You may live a hundred years or so in this life, possibly comfortably, but, if you are wrong and God exists, spending eternity in the wrong place is a Lot longer.
    Anyway, enjoy your life you have now either way. I personally enjoy the comradery and fellowship with my many church friends. It is stronger than family, lasts through thick and thin, and we are never lonely.

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  77. 77. jerryd 8:13 am 05/5/2014

    But at least admit you believe to belong to a group, not so much in a god.

    Nothing wrong with being in a group, just be honest about it. Though a common point between you all is a lie is rather sad. Too bad you couldn’t just be there for each other because it’s the right, smart thing to do instead of an old myth.

    And religion needs to stop forcing it’s so many immoral practices on others. The things, cruelty, etc done in the name of religion is breathtaking.

    The fact many support republican moneychanger agendas, complete opposed by the teaching of Jesus is a case in point. Dems are far closer to Jesus teaching than most repubs ever could be. What’s up with that?

    Healthy Christian women for instance abort having children 300 times in their lives for so many reasons yet get upset about women doing the same for the same reasons. Even in cases of rape, incest, life of the mother they devalue women so much in too many cases.

    Again it’s not Jesus I worry about, it’s his followers and what they do in his name Jesus would be appalled by.

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  78. 78. Diogenes11 7:36 pm 05/5/2014

    Some fun and some weird comments in this thread. But if one is rationally contemplating climate change and religion, it is worth noting that anthropogenic climate change is better attributed to science than religion. From the first coal-fired steam engines which powered the Industrial Revolution, to the petroleum powered cars, which a dispassionate alien observer might take to be our true gods, as we destroy nature to make freeways for our gods to roll over.

    For many of us, cars are our most valuable (as well as most prized) possession, and for the home-owner, usually the second most valuable.

    And what should a rational atheist do about climate change? Nothing. Not a thing to worry about, simply another global fluctuation in temperature to perhaps Cretaceous levels, which will put natural selection pressures on many species. The fittest will survive.

    Take the approach of Kim Jong Un or Robert Mugabe, and live in luxury, despoiling my own country to satisfy my personal whims. There is no god, no higher authority than me, I can do what I want, to the limits of my power. Those living in democracies can vote for guys like Al Gore who flies first class around the world and owns a fleet of SUV gas guzzlers, who won’t restrict consumption of fossil fuels.

    It is different for a sincere Christian, because Jesus commands us to care for all people – even strangers, e.g. the islanders of Tuvalu or Kiribati, or Bangladeshis, who are at risk from global sea-level rises.

    Scott Huler would do better to worry about rational atheists like the Chinese government, who pollute without qualms for future generations, to improve their personal lifestyles. But perhaps he can take comfort that God’s faithful people have a reason to care about God’s planet. Christians like Wilberforce and Pitt led the campaign to abolish slavery, because if God values people, we should also. This internally-consistent, rational outworking of the gospel also drives those of us who care about others, to protect them from pollution and the detriments of scientific progress.

    Jerryd has a valid point that no Christian lives up to Jesus standards, but at least we have a compelling reason to try.

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  79. 79. hkraznodar 5:17 pm 05/6/2014

    Such bitterness and acrimony in this discussion. Democrats will lose seats in the house and senate, not because Obama has failed, but instead because that is how historical patterns have almost always been. No one is truly happy due to the government being little better than a bunch of prostitutes so they vote for the other side. This is why a 2 party political system is inherently stupid. With a multiparty system everyone has to make concessions to get anything passed and what people stand for is much clearer.

    Personally I would like the feds to simply charge the executives of these mass polluters for crimes against humanity, try them in the secret court and when convicted put them to death. Why should they be allowed to murder with impunity? Yes, murder. Their actions directly lead to the deaths of children and others so it is actually murder and they are doing it on a large scale. kill them all and send them to hell like they deserve.

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  80. 80. browndoc 5:51 am 05/7/2014

    Just to clarify : The USA is the last and only western nation left in the world that has an issue with this. Now,either the rest of us educated nations are in the dark about some supposedly very obvious things ,or some people in the USA are. Now,which seems more probable? If you spouted shit about god or Jesus whilst running for election in most of the “different” nations in Europe,your chances for election would pretty much disappear. I’m not saying that we’re so much better in Europe,but what I am saying is we’ve learned a couple of very important things. Keep religion way way out of politics,and get your science,from REAL scientists,that are NOT ties up with oil companies ,and are better at the actual science than convincing a non-scientific general public by way of misleading presentation that sounds convincing,but when looked into in detail does not stand up to a rigorous scientific methodology.It’s just not tolerated over here,but if you have a society that public speakers can easily get away with bringing in supernatural supposed facts into the public arena,and a public that don’t even flinch for a second,then,I’m afraid,you can say what ever you like and back it up with a one sided argument,and there my friends,you have a huge problem! oh,and when I read the comment something like,”If he doesn’t like the state he lives in ,why doesn’t he just live somewhere else?”,all I heard was,we’re stupid here,and if he doesn’t want to live in a place where we are happily stupid,then go live elsewhere.(Some people are actually trying to make a difference) Don’t get me wrong,I love the USA,and I have a lot of friends there,but some aspects of your nation really scare the crap out of me and the rest of the citizens on this planet.

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  81. 81. browndoc 9:08 am 05/7/2014

    Christ Crum. You are so full of shit you don’t understand. You talk about REAL science whilst citing things you ,or anyone else have zero evidence to support . That’s about as anti science and observation as you can get. If you get your REAL information from a book that was written by people who lived thousands of yrs ago in a much more primitive society with a world view that could be challenged by an average 4 yr old today,then there is something very wrong with something. So,what are your qualifications ?

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  82. 82. Sheepdog 7:12 pm 05/7/2014

    The kindest things that can be said about the “crums” of this world is that their thought process can be summed up as “I’ve made up my mind, don’t confuse me with facts.”

    The sad part of it is that this sort of idiocy is not private, frankly I could not care what sort of rubbish “Crum” believes, but this type of ignorance is cynically exploited by the ultra right, who probably don’t believe it either, for no purpose other than their personal enrichment, and increased, albeit undeserving, power and influence.

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  83. 83. Nowsane 1:15 pm 05/20/2014

    I’ are still amazed that commenters are still concerned about the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere. Haven’t they seen the pier-reviewed literature that shows that it has NO bearing on climate, and is, in fact, controlled by temperature.

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